It is undeniable that the role of People Analytics in HR strategy has become increasingly significant. However, despite its immense growth, career progression in the field is still a topic of concern for many people analytics professionals.

In this episode of the Digital HR Leaders podcast, host David Green sits down with renowned People Analytics expert Serena Huang to discuss the common career paths observed in the field and how they have evolved over the years.

Throughout her years of experience as a leader in iconic companies such as GE, Kraft-Heinz, and PayPal, Serena has gained valuable insights into the field of People Analytics. Now as the founder of her own company, Data with Serena, she brings a unique perspective on the evolution of careers in this field.

Join them as they dive into various topics such:

• The common career paths in people analytics and their evolution over the years;

• The future of people analytics and how career stagnation issues can be addressed by individuals and organisations;

• The impact of AI advancements on the people analytics role, career structures, and necessary skill sets;

• The strategic value of people analytics to CHROs and the challenges in leveraging it for strategic decision-making;

• Strengthening the relationship between people analytics leaders and CHROs;

• The role of people analytics in supporting employee wellbeing;

• Essential skills for aspiring people analytics professionals and leaders in the coming years.

If you are looking to gain insights and knowledge on the current state and future of People Analytics careers, then this podcast is for you.

Support from this podcast comes from ScreenCloud–the digital signage platform that helps HR around the globe elevate their digital employee experience, with 'screens that communicate'. 

To learn how ScreenCloud can enable your organisation to increase employee engagement, drive productivity, and improve compliance, visit screencloud.com

[0:00:00] David Green: Needless to say, over the past few decades, people analytics as a function has grown to become a crucial component of HR strategy; so much so, here at Insight222, we have found that since 2020 alone, the people analytics function among leading companies has grown by 43%.  However, despite this growth, there are still many questions surrounding the career paths of people analytics professionals, are we starting to see stagnation in terms of career progression; and more importantly, if so, how can organisations address these challenges and support the growth of their people analytics leaders and professionals? 

To help us discuss these themes, I'm delighted that my guest for this episode is one of the most recognisable people in the field, Serena Huang.  With years of experience working as a people analytics leader at iconic companies such as GE, Kraft Heinz, and PayPal, Serena has recently ventured out to start her own company, Data with Serena, a startup that focuses on leveraging people data and analytics to drive business outcomes.  Serena brings a unique and fresh perspective on the evolution of people analytics careers and the future of the field, which is why I'm delighted to have her on the show today.  Together, we will discuss the common career paths observed in the field, how the role of people analytics is transforming with the adoption of AI, and the challenges CHROs face when leveraging people analytics for strategic decision-making.  We'll dive into employee wellbeing and its integration into people analytics strategies, as well as the skills Serena predicts will be crucial for entering and advancing in the people analytics field in the coming years.  So let's jump right into the conversation with Serena.

Serena, welcome to the show.  Before we get started, it's a little bit of a ritual that I ask all our guests to give a brief introduction to themselves.  So, can you share a little bit about your background and the journey that led you to become a people analytics leader and what inspired you to work in the field? 

[0:02:17] Serena Huang: Yeah, of course.  David, thank you so much for having me, it's great to see you again.  I'm Dr Serena Huang and I have been a people analytics practitioner for many years, since almost its infancy, I would say.  I am a PhD labour economist by training and really stumbled into the field of people analytics when it was just getting started.  So, I built out the people analytics function at companies like GE early on in my career after a stint in consulting, and then have really enjoyed the process of really building teams from scratch, building the function from scratch.  At times, I was scaling or turning around, and I really had done that five times in large global organisations, and most recently at PayPal.  And earlier this year, I launched my own company to really help educate the world on the power of people analytics. 

I found tremendous joy in sharing knowledge on whether it's a podcast interview or public speaking and virtual or in person, so I decided to really take it full time and go beyond the borders of my own employer, and so far, so good.  That's kind of how I got here.  So, I founded Data with Serena.  It is short for my mission, which is to help the world learn to love data with Serena.

[0:03:41] David Green: Well, great.  We'll definitely talk a little bit more about Data with Serena.  You mentioned that you've got a PhD as a labour economist, and given your experiences in the field at five companies, what are some of the common people analytics career paths that you've observed?

[0:03:58] Serena Huang: There's many, and I've seen it change over time as well.  When I first started, I think there was a lot of people who came from IO-like backgrounds, certainly some economics, some MBAs, sort of ex-consultants.  But then more recently, as it becomes easier to learn data analytics skills on the fly, I've seen more and more HR business partners who come from more traditional HR backgrounds go back and say, "You know what, I'm just fascinated by data analytics", and I got addicted to Excel in one of the projects; it's a real disease!  And I wanted to upscale and pivot to do something else.  So, I've seen that transition as well and now, I've also recruited from other analytics functions in large companies, whether it's customer analytics or other data science and machine-learning functions that are maybe focusing on non-HR problems, but with very comparable skillsets that are transferable.  And as long as they have passion for people, that's the most important. 

The technical skills certainly can transfer to solving people problems, and I think that's kind of where people enter people analytics, whether it's a junior or mid-level.  As they go on, it sort of becomes most people in all these organisations, unless you're at huge companies, are still fairly small today, even though we've been on this journey for a while.  So, the promotion path is kind of limited because the organisation is just small.  So, even at the largest company team size that I've had, I probably have three, maybe four layers total, right?  So, that means unless I leave, my direct report doesn't really get to be promoted, get promoted into another level.  That doesn't mean they can't get pay increases or things like that, but as far as vertical progression within the people analytics function, it is not as quick or as fast.  So, you see probably a lot within your client base, I'm sure, a lot of people moving around from one company to another, especially after they get to the level reporting to the people analytics leader or the leader themselves, because there's not a place to go vertically. 

I've also started to see that, you know what, not everyone wants to grow vertically every two or three or five years.  They might want to expand their skillset, they might want to expand their industry, and that's something I have personally done, is do similar but different type of work across different industries, and I found the problem I solved very interesting because they're all different.  That's kept me engaged over the years and kept pushing this rock up the hill.  But then I've also started to see people go into other functions within HR, like leading talent acquisition, like becoming an HR business partner, to be on the client side, if you will, instead of being on the analytics side, or compensation and benefits.  Total rewards is another popular destination for people analytics leaders or team members to go to because numbers are kind of bonding us together.  And then, I've also started to see transition into other analytics functions as well, and completely outside of HR. 

So, I think there's a lot going on in the internal mobility, and over time we can start to see more possibilities.  I, of course, will have to mention that some people exit corporate world completely, and instead of traditional employment, they become entrepreneurs like myself and you instead.  And I think part of that is just, I credit COVID to some extent, I'm sure all of us, when we were so bored, were baking banana bread or making pizza dough from scratch, that we started to wonder, "What do I really want to do with my life at some point?"  And for some people, that meant very different career paths, that meant quitting a job that they had been in for a very long time.  And for others, it meant why I want to start my own business.  And now with so much free advice out there, it's easier than ever to do something full time and just give it a shot.  So, yeah, I think it's become really interesting to see how my peers over time have grown and many have launched their own companies as well.

[0:08:45] David Green: What I'd like to explore a little bit now, Serena, is your own path.  You ventured out building your own startup, Data with Serena, and being pretty successful.  We saw each other in London, I think, when you were speaking at the People Analytics World Conference earlier this year.  From your personal perspective, what influenced you to your decision to leave the corporate path; and how's the transition been for you so far?

[0:09:08] Serena Huang: Yeah, great question.  Like I said, I noticed that I really enjoy building teams and building a strategy for people analytics and seeing those aha moments in my clients.  And I did a lot of soul searching, like many people during the pandemic.  I had gotten multiple executive coaches and even therapy, so lots of self-discovery along the way.  And as I became more honest with myself, I know that what brings me the most joy were a few things: one is speaking; training; and then, content creation.  So, those are really three things that bring me a lot of joy, which I was really doing as a hobby in addition to my day job.  And by content creation -- I think speaking and training are fairly clear.  Content creation, I don't mean making funny cat videos, but really sharing my journey or insights around people analytics on LinkedIn, and really on the writing side.  So, I started my own newsletter blog and so on, just to share, and then lectures at different universities.  And I realised that I wanted to, like I said, go beyond the walls of my company and the limited number of conferences I had time for during the year in addition to my regular job.  So, I decided to take that full time. 

But also, one feedback I heard over and over again since I started even doing the speaking and training, and in conferences and within the companies, is that people will say, "I've looked at data for so many years and you have helped me see it in completely different light".  And those are the moments I really hang on, on a raining day.  And so I think about, "How can I create more of moments like this?" because a lot of people in HR traditionally are not fans of data, they might even be fearful of working with data.  And so, I've had success in getting a lot of them to come to the dark side of loving data, and I wanted to just do more of that on a different scale.  So, that's what influenced me. 

My job itself in various companies was very fulfilling, really enjoyed the team-building piece and the client interactions internally, but I just realised unless I clone myself, I could not do all the things that I wanted to do because I still only have 24 hours.  And then I pretty much told myself, "Look, I'm going to give this a try for six months and if no one wants to hire me to do this, great, I'll go back, certainly continue with the people analytics journey in some other company".  But so far, so good.  And yeah, like I said, I think for me the biggest learning along the way is to find out that I'm a multi-passion multi-skilled person, and that traditionally doesn't fit inside corporate boxes.  There's just no career path for, a clear career path at least, for someone like me, at least at the time, but times could change, so we'll see.  I do see a lot of other individuals who are starting to do the same and really explore other parts of themselves, like I paint, I create music, and I don't intend to do those for a living, but I do it for fun.  Like the analytics training and teaching, on the other hand, I think so far, it's been proven to be something the world really needs right now.

[0:13:11] David Green: I wonder though, Serena, what you've talked about as a people analytics leader, maybe feeling that certainly from a corporate perspective, it's not necessarily about the companies that you work for, just from a corporate perspective, you felt there wasn't necessarily anything further for you to develop your corporate career, what does this say about the future of people analytics perhaps, if leaders are deciding that they need to go elsewhere?

[0:13:37] Serena Huang: Yeah, that's a million-dollar question, right?  And over the years, I almost feel like it's, what's the saying, "The shoemakers' kids don't have shoes", or something; is that right?  So, I sort of feel that way about the function building a predictive attrition model, for instance, or building skills-based strategy, or data-driven career paths, what have you, oftentimes we would do that for other functions, right, the critical jobs, whether that's customer-facing roles, whether that's sales, whether that's product, what have you.  Revenue-generating roles, sure, it makes sense to focus on those, because people analytics resources are not inexpensive.  But then oftentimes, we don't see that on ourselves.  It's like the saying where, "HR for HR is a luxury in most companies".  Well, guess what?  People analytics for people analytics is also a luxury.  And I've rarely seen a model that focuses on people analytics. 

Sure, yes, you can argue the sample size is too small and whatnot, but truly, when's the last time we really sit down and had an honest discussion with the CHRO and said, "Look, this function is new and it's very different from the rest".  It's taken decades, maybe a little more than a decade, to prove that we exist for a reason, but no one really knows what we do.  And when no one knows what we do, that makes it challenging to talk about career paths.  But also for the team members, when there's budget cuts, when there's freezing of hiring, all these things to explain to their peers and the leadership team on a function that's relatively new and maybe, especially in a new place, haven't had a chance to prove out the ROI, because it takes time.  So, how do we make sure it is an attractive workplace, it is an attractive long-term play for the people analytics leader and their teams, because like I said, the opportunities are abundant that they can go somewhere else.  So, it seems like that discussion hasn't happened as much. 

So, I think in the future, I definitely in the past have done the work a lot of times to share with my stakeholders, "What is it that we do that solve your pain points?"  And that look, sometimes a machine-learning model just takes time to become better.  You can't do that overnight.

[0:16:29] David Green: How do you see the advancements and increasing adoption of AI and machine learning in the field transforming the role, and more specifically the career structure and path of the people analytics profession?

[0:17:34] Serena Huang: Yeah, I think there's so much potential right now.  We are just scratching the surface.  One particular area that I see, certainly because HR for HR is difficult, I really would hope to see the skills-based workforce strategy come to life.  There's a lot of skills tech out there now where maybe 10, 20 years ago, we're filling out what our skills are, maybe we're taking a survey about our skillset, maybe there's manager assessment that takes forever.  But now with AI, it's able to guess what kind of skillsets you should have based on your job history, based on your education certificates, and all these things that are in the system.  And then all you need to do is quickly validate and move on, or maybe even not.  And then the point of all of this really is not to know what skills everyone has, but to build out a path for the organisation, what kind of capabilities do we have today, and what do we need in the future, and how do we close the gap?  And then for individuals as well, if I know that I want to be an AI expert in three years from now, focusing on ethics, for example, how do I get there from where I am now if I'm an HR business partner who loves data?  And slowly building that path using AI, I think can solve a lot of headaches of people saying, "Well, I don't have career paths, or I don't know where to go next". 

Also, because so many jobs that will happen in the future are not here yet, instead of figuring out what role you want to be in, it's really figuring out maybe the next learning that you want to get, maybe the next opportunity that can grow you in certain ways, as opposed to being too focused on the title because that job may not exist.  I think AI is also starting to transform how HR views analytics, which is very exciting.  There's a lot of technology that really shortens the time from data to insights today.  And so, someone manually doing things like a PowerPoint presentation that has a chart, and then they have to narrate what is happening in the graph, AI can do that now easily.  So, I think that instead of everyone learning how to do data analytics, AI can close the gap for a lot of individuals in HR who may not have a lot of data, but they can now quickly know what's going on. 

I think about things like exploratory analysis as well, where AI can shorten the time and quickly figure out what's going on in the data.  Of course, we have to talk about automation a little bit.  I remember years ago, because I had the joy of owning HR operations briefly, we were starting to explore automation with payroll, and it was really exciting.  We were able to get bots to check payroll data and accuracy, and so on, with very minimal investment, and this was years ago.  I remember at the time, as I bring up things like, "Well AI can also do amazing things for people in analytics", it just didn't get the same response at the time.  People were much more excited about payroll automation versus automating PowerPoint presentation and people analytics, for instance.  But I think we're now in a different place.  It feels like getting quicker from data to insights, and of course to action, is getting a lot of traction.  A lot of people no longer want to be swimming in an ocean of data and they want to have insights and take action because data itself does not help with that.  So, lots of potential for sure. 

I think I'll add one more, because there's so much discussion still around return to office and monitoring what people are doing with various technologies out there that can monitor who's locked in, who has batched in, and how many hours people are working, I think a lot of employees and business leaders are holding HR accountable for making sure these type of technologies and monitoring employees' productivity, what-have-you, is ethical and are making the right decisions and it's not creepy.  So, with new advancement in AI, we can do a lot of things with the data on employees in real time.  Should we?  It's a different question.

[0:22:52] David Green: One of the relationships, Serena, just progressing on now, that is so important for the people analytics leader is that with the CHRO.  And certainly we're seeing from the research that we're doing at Insight222, that over time, the people analytics function in many organisations is becoming key strategic values for the CHRO as well; we're seeing that through reporting lines as well.  Obviously, as someone who's done this in a number of organisations, what challenges do you see CHROs often express in leveraging people analytics effectively for strategic decision-making?

[0:23:30] Serena Huang: Yeah, a lot of times the function starts as a reporting function.  And I used to have this joke inside my team that we need to make sure we are a people analytics team and we're not a people reporting team.  And because a lot of times, whether it's ESG requirements or whatever the board of directors needs, there's a lot of data that is required for reporting purposes, and that's great.  It's nice to have a team that knows what they're doing, but frankly the value for the company is not going to be as great if you can't get to analytics and solving real problems[MR5] .  A lot of CHROs may be stuck thinking about the function as a reporting function, where they can actually think about, "You know what, in the next board of directors conversation, when they're asking about talents, when they're asking about succession planning, when they're asking about return to office again, what kind of data can I bring, what kind of insights can I bring to them to make concrete recommendations to move forward so we're not stuck in some debate?"  I think it really needs to be at that level of problem that people analytics teams are solving. 

So, it's up to the CHRO to certainly bring those problems to the people analytics team, but it's also up to the people analytics leader to ask the right questions to get there[MR6] .  If you keep asking, "What data do you need; what data do you want to see?" you are going to miss the boat completely.  And I talk a lot about, in my data story, telling training that you need to first make sure you're solving the right problem.  You need to know what's keeping your leaders up at night, and that requires a lot, right?  You can't exactly just text your CHRO and say, "Hey, are you losing sleep over something that I can help you with?"  You're not going to get a response.  But really, through the conversations about priorities for the company, something that is going to impact the top line or the bottom line, is it going to improve the revenue?  Is it going to reduce the cost?  If the problem you're solving is not going to do either of those things, it's probably not worthwhile[MR7] .  That means your leadership team probably will not care.  It's a cute problem, and that's great, but it's not something that will give you the budget if you want to expand your team, for example.  So, I think it's on both.

But then the other piece, I will say, is you need to create iPad moments.  What do I mean by iPad moments?  Well, remember the iPad when it was first introduced?  No one requested an iPad, right?  No one said, "I want an iPad".  But once it was introduced, everyone wanted one, it seems like.  So, how do you bring the insight to your CHRO that makes them go, "Wow, I didn't know I needed this, and I absolutely want it going forward"?  So, it's a balance of solving the pain points that are really critical to the business quickly, and then also spend enough time, whether it's 10%, 20% of your time, to solve the problems that maybe they didn't ask for but you know will matter to the business.  [MR8] 

[0:27:03] David Green: Serena, I know you're really passionate about employee wellbeing, and probably like many of us, it might be why you even got into HR and people analytics in the first place, and obviously we've seen it's been a big focus for many companies during the pandemic, and thankfully it has been, with burnout levels that are pretty much at record highs at the moment.  I wonder if some companies are starting to take their eye off the ball a little bit when it comes to this topic.  What are you seeing in this area and how can people analytics play an important role in supporting employee wellbeing?

[0:28:29] Serena Huang: The people analytics team has a huge role in supporting this area.  I've definitely seen budget cuts really across the board in HR in difficult times.  And the cuts are hitting areas like DEI, and certainly the wellbeing, whatever benefits were introduced during COVID, that seems like they were not as needed anymore, as well as learning.  And unfortunately, these are all critical areas to a person's overall wellbeing and performance.  I mean, if you're not feeling well, whether it's mentally or physically, how can you perform at your best?  And I don't think we need data on this, but I will share a few that really resonated with me from a recent study by Deloitte, their 2023 Wellbeing Study.  They found that 60% of people actually considered quitting their job to go to a place that will support their wellbeing, including 75% of C-suite themselves.  So, everyone is pretty stressed. 

Also, there's a huge gap between what company leaders think they're doing on employee wellbeing versus what employees are perceiving.  84% of C-suite said their company has made progress on, and commitment to, employee wellbeing, but only 39% of their employees agree[MR9] .  So, that's a huge gap.  And if you think about what the board of directors might be thinking, well, we have invested a lot in employee wellbeing, and it seems like employees are not feeling it.  So, what is the gap?  And this is definitely an area where we now have plenty of data, we now don't need to rely on our guts for an answer.  But because traditionally maybe it's not something people, it seems, have looked at as much, we kind of shy away from it, but it's absolutely critical. 

Also, I just heard a podcast around the loneliness pandemic.  And we talked about that a lot, and it's not just the lockdown initially, it was everything that followed.  I recall the stats, around 50% of Americans feel lonely.  That's a lot.  And in fact, the US Surgeon General released a framework around how to increase your wellbeing at work.  And one of them, one of the five elements is social connection.  And as I think about all the conversations and debates around return to office, there's this element that we don't quite measure as much or talk about as much is connection, because it's difficult.  So, there's different types of connection.  Social connection means you feel like you are part of something bigger, and you belong to something bigger than just yourself and your family and your close friends.  And when that happens at work, it could do incredible things for productivity, collaboration, innovation; and when it doesn't, you sort of feel like you are on an island and you have no one to reach out to. 

So, it's great that we are starting to measure productivity of people coming to the office, but do they truly feel connected after they spend more time in the office, or do they feel equally isolated as before, because all they do is sit in their cubicle and they don't talk to anyone?  Maybe even worse, they're on Zoom calls all day when they're in the office.  So, I think we can start to measure that, whether through passive listening like organisational network analysis, or active listening by surveying whether people feel a sense of connection to colleagues, sense of connection to the purpose, do they feel like the manager cares about them as an individual.  Those are some sample questions I personally like and I think can go a long way if you do it more frequently to get a pulse on what's going on in the organisation. 

[0:32:47] David Green: Yeah, I think you're right.  I think in people analysis, we have a responsibility to do active and passive listening to really understand wellbeing, to understand inclusion, to understand belonging, to understand connection, all those sorts of things.  And maybe as we do more research on this, both within companies, but as a field, we can start to see the impact that not getting those things right has on individuals, on teams, so not just performance and wellbeing, but also on company performance and wellbeing, and maybe that's how we turn the dial a little bit in the future.  Serena, we're coming to the end of the episode, and before we go to the question of the series, we talked a lot about people analytics careers, and I'd love to get your view on this one.  For those aspiring people analytics professionals, or even HR professionals that want to develop their data literacy skills, what skills do you foresee will be crucial for the field as we go into the next two, three years? 

[0:33:48] Serena Huang: I'll give three; three C's.  One is communication.  I think storytelling with data is a super critical skill that will not go away anytime soon.  We as humans are wired to listen to stories, so how can you do that in the data analytics context is super critical.  And also being able to communicate with a different audience you have to tailor your message.  When I'm talking to my data scientist, it's going to be very different from when I'm talking to the CHRO and the CEO.  And the second C is critical thinking.  In the world that we're living in now, with lots of AI-generated content out there, some might be real, some might be false, completely, how do we continue to use critical thinking skills to tease out what information to consume and what is true and what is not?  It will continue to become a challenge and probably even become more difficult with AI if we're not careful. 

The third C is continuous learning.  And really, not just taking courses or listening to podcasts and reading articles, but one skill I often look for in interviewing individuals to join my team is whether or not they have intellectual humility, meaning are they willing to be wrong?  Do they have the humility to be wrong and unlearn something and do something differently?  I think that's going to be critical, again, in the world of AI.  You might quickly find out what was true before is no longer true.  So, those are the three Cs, communication, critical thinking, and continuous learning.  Notice I didn't say any of the Python or SQL Tableau skills.  I think if you can apply continuous learning, you'll get to a point where you realise you need to pick up those specific skills, and so that's a great starting point.

[0:35:59] David Green: I really love those three, and I think we can apply those for any HR professional.  We get to the question of the series now.  So, this is the question we're asking everyone on this series of the podcast, and we could go quite a long way with this one, I suspect.  How will AI transform the role of HR?

[0:36:17] Serena Huang: I think we need another hour!  But I'll try to keep it to highlighting three particular areas that I've started to see already.  One is the work that HR does.  From automation potential in shared services and answering questions that no longer need to be done by humans, those have tremendous potential for really efficiency and time savings and leaving time for HR to do HR things, more human tasks, as opposed to the things that AI can do.  Second is the impact HR has.  I've mentioned skills-based workforce planning strategy and that can really elevate the impact HR has, along with the power of making data more digestible to go from data to insights faster.  Instead of being afraid of data, maybe now a lot of HR business partners will embrace data instead because of AI. 

Finally, the relationship HR has with the organisation, whether it's the board of directors, the CEO, but then also with employees.  I mentioned earlier when we talked about monitoring employees, it's super critical for HR to gain and continue to maintain their trust from the organisation.  But then also, with other AI tools coming in, leaders are looking to HR to make sure that employees and their data are guarded and that they are safe and it's used for the right reasons.  So, that relationship HR has is at a critical point and I think could go, I hope it's a positive direction, but there's a lot to be done for sure.

[0:38:13] David Green: That's really good.  I like things in threes as well, so that's very good!  Two questions in two threes.

[0:38:18] Serena Huang: I can't remember things more than that number!

[0:38:21] David Green: No, I can tell you've got a consulting background, so that's really cool!  So, Serena, thank you so much for being a guest on the Digital HR Leaders podcast.  How can listeners find you on social media?  I know they can find you on LinkedIn, but how can they find out more about Data with Serena?  How can they find out more about your LinkedIn learning courses?  How can they find out about your newsletter?

[0:38:45] Serena Huang: Yeah, very easy.  Datawithserena.com is my new website, and you can find everything there, and certainly follow me on LinkedIn.  I do share something daily.  It's sometimes people analytics and sometimes something else.  So, hope to connect, thank you so much.

[0:39:03] David Green: Thank you very much, Serena, it's been a pleasure to speak to you as ever.  Thank you.