In this episode of the Digital HR Leaders Podcast, David is joined by Daniela Seabrook, Chief Human Resources Officer at Philips.

With a strong background in HR, clinical psychology and organisational psychology, Daniela provides insight on how Philips infuses purpose throughout its people strategies.

Tune in to hear more about how Phillips:

• Has built a successful hybrid working model,

• Seeks to promote equity and eliminate bias amongst different working groups

• Fosters collaboration within hybrid working teams

• Utilises their people data to make critical business decisions, and much more!

Listen to the full episode, below. Enjoy!

Support from this podcast comes from Workday. You can learn more by visiting: workday.com 

David Green: Every business should have a purpose and a unique set of values that drive its growth and success.  And as HR leaders and professionals, it is our responsibility to ensure that we are living out our organisation's purpose in all of the people strategies we design and implement.  Today, I am joined by Daniela Seabrook, Chief Human Resources Officer at Philips, a global leader in health and wellness products.

Daniela shares how Philips puts purpose at the forefront of all people strategies, and how this approach has helped the company to build a successful hybrid working model.  In our conversation, Daniela and I explore how Philips actively tackles bias, promotes collaboration and inspires purpose-driven teams to drive business success and create a healthy culture.  So, without further ado, let's get started.

Before we dive into the more detailed questions, can you kindly share with listeners a bit about your background, how you got to where you are today, and of course outline your role at Philips, please?

Daniela Seabrook: Of course, and also thank you for having me here today, David, and also hello to everyone listening in.  So, maybe a few words about myself.  I'm a clinical psychologist by education.  You don't see too many in HR, but there are a few.  And actually, it remained a passion of mine, the mental health and wellbeing of people, and going deeper on that is something that certainly remained my passion.  While I never worked in the clinical field, I immediately, after my studies, entered the corporate life and Human Resources.

I worked in different companies and started my career in pharmaceuticals, and then I worked about half of my career in agriculture, or AgTech, then MedTech and now HealthTech in Philips.  All the companies I chose very deliberately, going to spend a bit more time on purpose and the importance of that for me later on, but all the companies I chose for how they contribute to greater good in our society, in our communities, and that was also the reason why I chose to come to Philips, where I'm the Chief Human Resources Officer now for the last a bit more than three years.

Again, the choice why coming here after being first approached and also thinking of the company more from an electronics perspective, or lighting, as many of the listeners might also have that in mind for us, actually in fact we've been on a transformation journey for the last a bit more than a decade, and we're really focused on health technology now.  So, being able to improve the lives of millions of people every day is something which attracted me, and we have great product solutions, propositions, for patients around the world.  That's something which motivates me and inspires me every day.

In terms of HR, and that's maybe interesting also for people listening in, I've had different roles in my career.  I spent probably two-thirds of my career in generalist roles, so kind of business partnering or Head of HR roles for local organisations, regional organisations and global teams.  Then, a third of my career, I spent in so-called expert roles, in particular in the space of talent, talent management, leadership, culture, these kinds of things, and that's also something which I still carry a lot of passion for.

David Green: And it's a good, rounded background to support you as you then transition to the CHRO role as well, I imagine Daniela, as well, so it's seeing all different parts of HR and how it's delivered across an organisation?

Daniela Seabrook: Yeah, I would agree.  I've been also asked, what would I look out for, for people succeeding me in my role, or CHROs, if people have this aspiration.  I think it's important that HR professionals try out different spaces in HR, like be it in the generalist, I call it generalist, client-facing HRBP roles; but also in expert roles, such as the ones I mentioned, or rewards, but also in operations.  So, I see these three areas mainly in HR in different forms, of course, across companies.  And having had experience at least in two of those areas, I personally find it important, plus also having worked on different levels, be it global, regional, local, to really have a good understanding of the bandwidth of the challenges which are out there in organisations, and also how to address them.

David Green: Yeah, thank you, that's a good introduction and some good tips there for people looking to evolve their HR careers I think that are listening.  So, Daniela, everyone has a purpose, you talked a little bit about that in your intro.  What's your purpose and how's that guided you throughout the career that led you to Philips?  And maybe just as an extension to that, you mentioned in the intro that mental health and wellbeing are passions for you; is that partly what drew you into HR as well?

Daniela Seabrook: So, my purpose, I would say, is to be able to contribute to something larger than my immediate, let's say, role or the immediate scope I have, so that's why also the companies I chose to work for, it was very important to me that they contribute to something greater, and also address the big topics out there of humanity.  In our case, of course, in Philips, we are helping, supporting to improve the health and wellbeing of people around the world and on one hand to create also more affordable healthcare, on the other hand also create the opportunity for under-privileged communities, or underserved communities to have access to healthcare. 

So, these are some of the aspects which are very important for us as an organisation and speak very much also to my personal purpose, so how can we also create more equity when it comes to healthcare access, for example, in the world and provide that to people out there.  We actually have the aim of improving the lives of 2.5 billion people by 2030, so touch the life and improve it by 2.5 billion in the world.  Also, if you look at our culture of how we go about this, it's about really focusing on the patient, on people and patients, we want to create a truly patient- and people-centric culture and how we do business and how we work together; because also, of course, we have not directly only patient contact, but customers, consumers, also we have a consumer business.

These are all things which are very important to me personally.  What I am very motivated by is to help people grow, being able to develop people from where they are today to where they aspire to go to, and to be able to help people on that journey is something which motivates me a lot.  I think that was probably a driver for me to enter Human Resources.

David Green: Can you share how you go about instilling that in the culture at Philips, and such as the way you hire and develop talent within the organisation perhaps?

Daniela Seabrook: So, in the recruitment or attraction space, of course, the purpose does play more and more an important factor for people choosing the employers they want to work for and the career they want to take.  We see that as well, for example, we also have intake from tech companies, and there we do hear, when people want to change industry, that why they're drawn to a company like ours, like Philips, is the purpose, that they can contribute with their knowledge, with their capabilities to something greater.

Of course, what you also find in companies like ours is you do have more purpose-driven people.  So, they come because of the purpose and also then how they live their life, how they want to work, how they want to contribute, that's also coming through in the workforce we have.  We see that again and again, particularly now, we're going through a tough time as an organisation, and that actually keeps the people motivated, that inspires the people to go the many extra miles to help the patients out there, customers, consumers; but also internally help each other. 

We've seen that through the pandemic, how people really reached out proactively within the company, but also in their communities, how people immediately raised their hand when it was about producing more ventilators for the people in need out there.  And more recently, in the war in Ukraine, our people immediately raised their hands, "How can we help; how can we take people up in our homes and support them through a tough time?"  So, that's something which is very at the core of our culture, you see that.   And we very deliberately also created now as well, we have a new CEO and he is very vocal about creating this very strong patient- and people-centric culture, where that's really at the core of how we innovate, how we do business, and that's very important for us.

In terms of attraction, I would say it's often the number one reason why people are joining us and we hear that again and again, when I speak to people who have joined us, or also in the interviews, and asked them, "Why Philips?"  That comes through very strongly.  Also, I think, in our case we have a very strong brand, which is recognised externally beside the purpose, also for how we do things in a sustainable way.  We are really leading in our industry when it comes to sustainability, and doing our business in a sustainable way.  Also, that is important for our people, how they can contribute also in that respect.

David Green: We've touched on this a little bit already, Daniela, that over the past three years, the only certainty seems to have been uncertainty with everything that's been happening, and there's been an increased focus on mental health and wellbeing, which is invariably being led by HR.  How is wellbeing and purpose shaping your approach as an organisation as you transition into this new world of work, whether it be hybrid, and we'll talk also about the fact that you've obviously got a number of employees that have to go to a place of work because of the nature of what you do; but how is that kind of wellbeing and purpose shaping your approach as you evolve into this new world of work?

Daniela Seabrook: So we have certainly, as many organisations, put a lot of emphasis on health already in the past.  Of course, we are a HealthTech organisation, so I always say we also need to make sure we take care of the health of our own people, or create an environment where people can be healthy.  I would say that over the last two years, the pandemic has helped to increase acceptance for also the mental health and wellbeing, that it became something one could talk about.  And in that context, we also significantly put more emphasis on the mental health and wellbeing.  So, we already had a lot in place for the physical health, if you want, but we increased that to also look at different other health dimensions, and in particular in the mental health space.  So, we have increased our offerings.

We also have a large mental health champion network which is growing, where we have people who we educate to also be able to support colleagues around the world who go through difficult times; we have employee assistance programmes; but we also speak more openly about it, I think that's the important point.  So, the offer has increased, but we also have made it much more of a topic when we had town halls when we speak with teams.  And leaders have been much more mindful about talking more openly as well about how they feel, not just how they keep themselves fit from a physical perspective, but how also they are mindful about their mental health and what they need, and when they are stressed, and that they are also sometimes anxious.  So, these kinds of things, and also how you speak about emotions, that is something which we changed.

We also had, particularly in the pandemic, regular reach-outs through surveys to people and asked them about how they feel, not just how they're keeping up with the environment and the challenges, but really, "How are you feeling from an emotional perspective?"  And we do the same in big town halls, we have word clouds, and we allow for things like "stressed, anxious, depressed", and then really also addressed that, and I think that has started to shift that approach.  Also, the feeling that people see we're really serious about this, and we continue to score very high in our engagement surveys when it comes down to questions like, if people feel that their mental health and wellbeing is respected in the organisation, if they can be themselves, these kinds of things.  We are really usually very, very high scores.

David Green: And as you said, Daniela, you've got leaders that are being more open about how they're feeling as well, and that's so important, isn't it, that leaders kind of model that behaviour, because then it helps others feel that they can speak up as well, and creates that safe space for this to be a topic that people can talk about openly?

Daniela Seabrook: I would agree.  I mean, the power of vulnerability is quite immense in that respect.  And what we did see through the pandemic is that first of all, the mental wellbeing challenges have increased, and maybe we spend a bit more time on that in a moment why this was, but that's just a fact, it's out there.  But we shouldn't forget that even before the pandemic, the kind of percentage of population of people who have suffered, or are suffering as we speak, from mental challenges is quite large, and I think that's why that was probably the under-represented diverse aspect in our population all along, and I'm very pleased and happy that this is now getting at the forefront.

David Green: What I'd be interested in, Daniela, obviously Philips has a lot of employees, and you have certain people that are able to work from home and are able to work remotely, and you have others that have to be in a place of work because of the nature of the work they do.  How do you manage these different groups to ensure fairness, but also to ensure that the right approach is applied for the right group of your colleagues?

Daniela Seabrook: Yeah, that's an important point for us.  About 50% of our workforce are not office-based roles, so that's a big part, that's around a bit less than 40,000 people.  Of course we have people who work in hospitals, they need to be out there also throughout the whole pandemic.  Then we have people in production, etc, so there is a big workforce and we were always very mindful of not just talking about hybrid and making it all about the other 50%, for who there was a big change through the pandemic. 

So, any of our offerings, we also think about, how do we make it work for the whole workforce; how can we make it accessible for everyone?  When we think of benefits, of engagement, whatever it is, we always think holistically about the whole workforce; and the different workforce on the different roles and natures of roles require different interventions, so that is something which we are always mindful of.

David Green: Yeah, I think it's important, because I think the conversation gets simplified a little bit sometimes, and it comes down to almost a one-size fits all, and it doesn't.  You've got to be -- and even within groups that can work hybrid, there will be differences as well, because dependent on the role, dependent on personal preference, dependent on the business need of course, people may be able to work more on a remote basis than an in-person basis in the office as well.

I think what's quite interesting is, it almost brings another nuance to diversity as well.  We've got programmes in place to ensure fairness and equality around gender and race and disability, or sexual orientation; but working arrangements in a place of work could be another little nuance as I said.  Certainly, for example, how do we ensure that people don't just get promoted because they're spending four days a week in the office versus their colleague who's in the office one or two days a week on average.

I'd be interested to think about how you're helping, as an HR function at Philips, to help people leaders mitigate some of these possible biases in what is a kind of new approach to work.

Daniela Seabrook: It's an interesting question.  It is true that if you are more visible to other people, and be it in person or also online, but in person it's a different way of also creating relationships, that that might play a role, through visibility, of also being more on top of mind when it comes to opening up of roles when leaders think of promoting, in particular people who might not work for them in their teams.  I think it is, as always, a leadership accountability, to help people grow and develop and being mindful of what kind of development opportunities are out there for their own teams, but also then connecting across the organisation.

On the other hand we, from an HR perspective, need to create the platforms where people can also reach out and also make themselves available, and that's something which we have put in place with an internal talent marketplace with gigs, that people can actually, allowing that they have capacity or also in discussion with their leaders, that they can try out or work in projects in other organisational units, contributing to something else they wouldn't usually, so also learn about different roles, different teams that they can also with that extend their own portfolio of capabilities.  So, these are things which we have very deliberately put out.

We have actually increased internal promotion rate over the last couple of years by 10%, so now every six out of ten promotions are internal on lower grades, and seven out of ten in the more senior grades are internal promotions.  So, three out of ten we would hire externally and seven out of ten would be internal promotions.  So, we've increased that with very deliberate interventions to really provide more visibility, more opportunities.

We also do internal talent scouting, so we don't let just external head-hunters come after people, but also the internal talent acquisition team directly addresses and approaches our people internally.  We have policies how to do that, etc.  So, these are all things which don't actually have to do with if you're in the office or not, so that's just here is your profile and your capabilities, which you have to of course maintain, and then you can be approached.

But to your point, I think it is an important one, how do you also create your network, because that's your own accountability; how do you make yourself visible that others are aware that you're there, you know, how you can contribute?  That's also, in particular with females, I can see that it's not as strong of a skill like with male co-workers, the conscious creating of network, and that's something which we also try to do by mentoring female leaders, for example, female colleagues, that they can create a stronger career progression for them.

But in terms of people who are more remote than others, we have not observed that that was a big hindrance.  I should say, however, that our approach to hybrid work was always from the start that we want our people to spend more work together than apart, so that was a very deliberate choice.  And in that respect, we always had the approach that people should come and meet physically, should be more regularly in the office, and also should be affiliated to one of our Philips offices, rather than be entirely remote.  Of course, we have people who are entirely remote; we have people dependent on roles where this is possible, but overall we put emphasis on, "You need to be close to an office, you need to come and interact with people, and particularly also linked to your job".  Then I think this issue probably becomes a bit smaller.

David Green: I'd be interested too, is there any other real benefit that you're getting from the internal talent marketplace that you've got?

Daniela Seabrook: Well, I think besides being able to grow our workforce more internally, as well I think for the people it's an important retention mechanism, because the number one reason, because we do exit surveys and we also, from the data discussion we had before, we gather a lot of data why people are leaving; and the number one reason in our case, and probably that's common across companies, is the lack of career progression.

We have an organisation of 78,000 people, which means we have a lot of roles in the organisation and opportunities, and often they are just not visible enough for people.  So they leave for another role somewhere else which they might have had maybe also the opportunity should they have known how to go after it in our own organisation, and that is what we want to improve and increase.  It's certainly something which is recognised we need to do more.  We hear from our people that we can do more, we need to do more, but that is something which I think is a big retention criteria for people to stay in a company.

David Green: And are you finding that having that internal marketplace, because obviously you're a big, global organisation, you're working in multiple countries and everything else; are you finding that having that internal marketplace in place is helping break down some of the silos that you would traditionally have in an organisation between different countries, different businesses?

Daniela Seabrook: So, I think for those gigs where people do take them, and we also see differences in teams how much this is actually put out there, it comes down to leaders again because you need to post your gig and then also be ready to coach the person through it.  Where it happens, I absolutely think that this is also a consequence of it, that you break down silos, you provide people insight into other teams, other parts of the organisation.  It can also be within the same organisation, but in another team, in another group.

Overall, I would probably pre-empt that we already see that across the company, because we still need to grow it further, that whole approach with the gigs.  But it's something where we have very positive resonance on.

David Green: Okay, really interesting.  And the second thing that you said was really interesting was around networks, because actually what you said about helping female employees in particular, it's interesting because there's quite a lot of external research that shows that males are generally better than females at changing their network as they move through an organisation.  So, the fact that you're addressing that, are you seeing that helping in terms of your promotion of females as they move up through the organisation as well?

Daniela Seabrook: We've done a few things actually in that respect.  We've made good progress over the last four years in gender diversity.  We really only started to address it probably five years ago very deliberately and we made progress.  We were there at about 17% in our more senior female leadership groups, which is very low.  We have this year, last year in fact, we have first time cracked the 30% mark.  So, within four years in fact, we actually really moved up significantly, and we can see the increase in every level.  So, we don't just look at the more senior levels, but really throughout the organisation.

We've put in place also a senior female group for network reasons, exactly that, to really come together to create a community; but also then, last year, started to mentor female leaders below the more senior female leaders to really start to increase that network, make people meet people who they wouldn't have met at all, create those mentoring relationships, an allyship, where you can also sponsor others, etc, and starting with our XCOR.  So, our XCOR members, each of them had a couple of senior female leaders they mentored, and with that really also can sponsor.  So, that network, you need to help and you also need to create a framework within it, and it can start to happen, and we do certainly see from this and other actions we took, we see very positive outcomes.

David Green: Moving on to the workplace design piece, you talked a little bit to that as well, as we transition into these new, different ways of working, and obviously as an organisation you're encouraging people to come in and meet with their colleagues and work with their colleagues, how do we influence as an HR function how our workplaces are designed to ensure collaboration in a more flexible working model?

Daniela Seabrook: Well, look, we are still learning, I must say, because we believe that an office is a bit like a smart hub, a social smart hub, I would say, where people really should come together to not just be in a small, closed room and do their email; of course, they can as well, because people just enjoy more being in an office environment, but it should focus on these human interactions and connections.

So, we designed our offices, in the first attempt, to create more open room where people can be together, and then we got the feedback where now we have so much open space, there's no space for meetings or smaller group meetings, or when I need to take a confidential call, etc.  So, we're still learning.  I think it needs to be a mix of these open spaces designed in a very interactive way, for example no tables, but you have possibilities to draw things on boards, etc. 

Then, we also learned that we need to provide enough spaces as well for smaller gatherings, and that you don't interfere with others, because we also know that the open-floor offices are stressful for people because the noise level is much higher.  So, how do you create it in a way that it's a really great experience, you have the interactions and connections, but you also have more quieter rooms?  So, that's something which we are still going after and learning as we go.

We have actually refreshed many of our offices but as we are going through it, we also learn that that still requires some more adaption.  And it comes down to asking the people, not just having a great idea and design in mind and go for it, but really go in an agile way, ask people, "How is it?  What do you need more or less of?"  And I think a very important point when it's about bringing people back together is that the leaders need to be there.  If the leaders are not there, we hear it again and again, people say, "Why should I go if my boss, or boss's boss are never there?"  So, that's something; role-modelling here is very key.

David Green: You talked a little bit, Daniela, about how Philips is using data from a people perspective.  How much is data part of these conversations, supporting the decisions that you're making around that to where you've got today; but how do you envisage it helping you measure effectiveness as you move forward as well?

Daniela Seabrook: We do use also in that regard a lot of data.  So, we have had, in some of our offices, kind of tools which told us about occupancy rates on certain floors, that you could book as well places, etc, where you want to sit, so we could also measure a bit how is the movement happening on the different floors; where do we see more people coming in, where less, etc.  So, we've done that.  I'm not sure yet how much it actually told us in terms of how people interact, and what we can take from it in terms of to not just optimise from a real estate perspective, but also from a pure interaction and impact perspective ultimately.  So, that's something that we are, yeah, again as I say, as we are talking we are learning from it.

But for me, more important is the direct interactions with people, really check in with them, see what's working well, what's not working well, and you can do that with surveys.  If you have a lot of people in a building, you can do it with focus groups; that has probably brought more insight to us.  But certainly, if we go out and ask for feedback, we also always try to incorporate it, or use it as a decision basis for the future and future setup.

I think what's important is that we also re-learn how we create meaningful interactions in person, because the last two years taught us a lot about how can you be very effective in tactical things where you have 30 minutes, you go through an agenda, you have your points you need to discuss; but how do you create really meaningful interactions face-to-face, which go deeper, which are more strategic, which are more creative dialogues?  That is something where I believe, certainly for us, we have room to re-learn and also to improve.

David Green: So, if we look back, I mean wouldn't it be wonderful if we could actually do this, if we look back two or three years, is there anything that you would have done differently if you could go back to March 2020 and the onset of the pandemic and the lockdowns and everything?  Or, if you could go back and give yourself some advice from today, what would it be?

Daniela Seabrook: I think because I was new in the role at the time, right, I was in the role for probably a bit more than three months when the pandemic started, which really took away the opportunity for me to meet with a lot more people in person than I could; but I still think I would put much more effort into reaching out more to people, even online, and people I didn't know, and learn more about them, the business, the different locations.  That is certainly something going back I would put much more emphasis on, because of course we also didn't know how long will it last, etc.  Knowing now how long it lasted and that we couldn't travel, I would retrospectively put much more emphasis on that.

The other point is to also, probably earlier, try to be more mindful about how do we create those moments for the creative thinking, the reflective thinking, rather than the more tactical, task-oriented.

David Green: So, for the final question of the day, this is a question we're going to be asking everyone on this series, if we look ahead to the next 12 to 24 months, what do you think HR leaders really need to be thinking about most; and maybe, what's your biggest concern, but also do you think the biggest opportunity with respect to that?

Daniela Seabrook: I think we touched on quite a few already, which I personally think are concerns of mine.  One is how we work and interact, so make really the time and spaces for the deeper, more creative, more holistic, more strategic thinking, reflective thinking also for ourselves; how do I take time enough to reflect on myself, and that also will help to balance a bit more this more tactical 30-minute targeted days, so very deliberately create those moments and times where there are no online meetings for those who work in offices, but that you can really create that balance more, which will then also actually have a better outcome for the business, but also a positive impact on the mental wellbeing. 

So, that's the other one; the mental wellbeing has suffered, and we are yet to see the consequences of that, in particular in the next generation workforce, because the young generation suffered even more for it, because they had less strong coping mechanisms.  So, that's another point, how do we continue that focus on mental health and wellbeing, and are very mindful in how we design work and how we do things.  Also, when it comes down to the overflow of communication, that I think is another stressor.  And if you think of context, the raising inflation which is coming, so there is a lot of stress coming from outside on our teams and people in the world, so how can we as organisations also help to create an environment where that's hopefully a bit less strong.

These are probably the two big concerns.  And linked to that, as I said before, I think, making human interaction something which is really key in our personal life, but also in our work life.  That is something which for me is a great opportunity, just be mindful of that again.

The other one is, we touched on sustainability, or ESG.  I think there is also great opportunity to go beyond, in particular the E in ESG.  So, we spoke today probably a bit more about the S part where Human Resources come into play, but I think there is an opportunity to be more precise about S, to be more measurable about the S part, and then of course in particular also the G.  But this for me is a great opportunity for going forward as well, because it also motivates people.  There is a huge inspirational, motivational factor in there and people want it, so how can we also make it a bit more tangible, measurable, to your point about data, that's probably also an opportunity.

Finally, now that I'm on it, is the technology improvement when it comes to interactions in a hybrid way.  I find the technology has not improved, or not much progressed, if we are online here and you can see the face.  All our Teams meetings and all the different technology which is out there has not significantly improved that you have a different feeling if you have a hybrid interaction, that you feel like the person is close to you.  There, I think, is a great opportunity for the tech companies or start-ups.

David Green: I completely agree, and I love your thing, how can we enable ESG; that's an opportunity for us as a function, I think, as we move forward.  Daniela, I've really enjoyed our conversation, thank you so much for being a guest on the show.  Presumably, if people want to find you or follow you, they can go to LinkedIn, but how do they find out more about maybe the work that you and the team are doing at Philips?

Daniela Seabrook: Well, we do have a home page, of course, so as you say, LinkedIn of course, but also we do try to be on LinkedIn, but also on our home page to be a bit more explicit on what we're doing, also in the ESG space, but also beyond that.  So, yeah, it's out there so please do reach out.  I'm happy to connect and also people in my team of course.  So, yeah, and thank you also for having me here, it was great dialogue.  Thank you, David.

David Green: Thank you very much, Daniela, take care and I hope to see you in person at some point in the future.

Daniela Seabrook: That would be great, thank you.  And, a great year ahead as well for you and everyone.