On the show today, I am talking to Shlomit Gruman-Navot Chief People Officer at OLX Group, one of the largest and fastest growing global trading platforms. With over 20 years of building organisational strength for global organisations, in this episode, Shlomit will be providing her invaluable insight into successfully leading hybrid teams during challenging and unprecedented times. Redefining the term VUCA as Vision, Clarity, Understanding and Agility, Shlomit shares why this is key for people leaders to successfully tackle what she currently coins as a ‘human-centric crisis’.

In this episode, we discuss:

• How to successfully lead hybrid teams during challenging and unprecedented times

• Redefining the term VUCA as Vision, Clarity, Understanding and Agility

• Why it is key for people leaders to successfully tackle what Shlomit currently coins as a ‘human-centric crisis’.

• How to maintain focus on long-term business goals when ‘Black Swan’ events can radically shift priorities overnight

• Using data as a driver for meaningful conversations and decision making

Support for this podcast comes from Visier. You can learn more by visiting https://www.visier.com/ 


You can listen to this week’s episode below, or by using your podcast app of choice, just click the corresponding image to get access via the podcast website here.

Interview Transcript

David Green: Today, I'm delighted to welcome Shlomit Gruman-Navot, Chief People Officer at OLX Group, to the Digital HR Leaders podcast.  Welcome to the podcast, Shlomit, it's great to have you as a guest.  Can you please begin by telling us a little bit about OLX, your current role at OLX Group and how you arrived there?

Shlomit Gruman-Navot: Thank you, David, and thank you for having me on your podcast today.  So, the way I arrived to OLX Group, and I was mentioning it to you just before, it was pretty much by chance; I didn't know a lot about OLX before joining this great company.  It is part of Prosus, which is one of the largest internet consumer groups in the globe.  And specifically at OLX Group, we build tech-enabled marketplace ecosystems of services to facilitate trade across 30-plus countries; and we are represented in very, very different parts of the world, in Europe, in India, Indonesia, LATAM, in the US and still expanding.

We are focused on second-hand goods trade, but not only, and we are building services around that, which is if this is paying cheap, if this is consulting services, financing, pricing, advisory.  We are also in services, in the jobs sector, and we have a very big autos transaction business, which is very fast-growing, and this is where we also have offline operations, so retail stores, where we are basically bringing together buyers and sellers of second-hand cars, and also facilitate the selling process, including inspection centres, pricing and so on and so forth.

I've been with OLX for the past almost three years.  Before, I worked for other global companies in the area of technology.  So, I worked for IBM.  I think that was -- we were both at IBM at the same time.  I worked for SAP for many years in regional roles, global roles, responsible for emerging markets.  Then, I worked in the banking sector, and I spent some time also working in Moscow and now in the Netherlands since three years.  So, I lived in UK, in France, in Spain, in Moscow, and now in the Netherlands for almost three years.

David Green: Wow, a really cosmopolitan background to the career.  And obviously, the way you outlined OLX, it's a pretty exciting organisation to be the Chief People Officer of?

Shlomit Gruman-Navot: Yeah, absolutely.  As I mentioned, it's been growing and changing very rapidly, and of course like any ecommerce business, consumer tech, of course the pandemic has changed a lot for us and accelerated a lot of the things that we were doing, especially around the goods trades, but not only, as we are seeing a big shift towards second-hand; and this is something that we proudly also facilitate. 

Like anything right now across the globe, you need to combine both the transformation of the business, so these ongoing changes, and obviously also facilitate growth, and we'll talk about that a little bit more today, is that paradox we need to manage as HR professionals, but as leaders, which I'm sure a lot of companies are seeing right now across the globe.

David Green: Yeah, well it sort of lends on to the next topic really.  I mean, we've had not one, but two black swan events in the last couple of years; and during your three-year tenure as Chief People Officer, the world of work has pretty much been turned inside out due to the pandemic obviously, and now the war in Ukraine.  There's no manual for if you're a Chief People Officer in an organisation for a pandemic or a war.

So, as a Chief People Officer, how do you being to prioritise what you should be focusing on at any given moment; and I'm thinking particularly about how you balance some of those long-term objectives that you talked about briefly, with the need to drop everything when circumstances require it?

Shlomit Gruman-Navot: Yeah, absolutely.  So, I think the last three years have been -- I mean personally, it's been an amazing learning journey, but not only as a leader, but also I think a role for the HR function.  Maybe I can share just a few things that I've taken away, and what I'm seeing from the way that we respond to these different events, which indeed I think has just happened this way that things that might have happened in the past for a lot of years are now happening in a shorter period of time.

I think the first thing, as we saw with the pandemic, but also with the current situation in the war and any other external event that impacts people, is first take care of your people.  So, we very much take this people-come-first approach.  This is about the wellness, the wellbeing of the people, ensuring that people are safe.  So, first of all, people, and prioritise people in every situation.  Once you do that, and keep that at the top of your priority, you can look at other things; so what needs to change or evolve in terms of the business, the way that you respond to your customer needs, local communities, the way you support local communities, and so on.

The crises that we've seen recently are human-centric crises, and HR is in the front, or the people function in the front of leading and managing these crises.  So, I think it's extremely important to put the oxygen mask first and really look at the wellbeing and the wellness of our teams who need to take care of others.  And, that's another thing that we need to be very, very conscious of, and we have been very, very conscious of.

Then, extremely important to stay agile and pivot quickly.  So obviously, we plan and we always need to plan a little bit for the long term and set the goals for the year, so be very clear about what we're going to achieve; and at the same time, be extremely flexible and agile as the circumstances change, to be able to adapt quickly.  So, it's a lot about prioritisation and the mindset of, "Okay, when things are changing, when things become uncertain, we are ready to pivot". 

That's also part of the learnings of what I've seen in these recent crises, of the ongoing situation that we're managing; it's really about mindsets.  Part of that mindset is the resilience that you develop in yourself and also in your teams, is this embracing of uncertainty and learning to accept it, to some degree, which is sometimes difficult, but that's almost something that we need to start feeling or being comfortable with.  This is something that also we need to pay attention on, and how we develop it in the teams.  This is something that definitely can be developed.

It's also, I think, important -- and that's another learning we just saw in COVID, and also with recent events, is keep communication really, really close, making sure that there is ongoing communication all the time.  When things start to shift, it's really important that we communicate constantly and provide clarity as much as possible.  It's also okay to say, "We don't know.  We don't know what we don't know".  And sometimes, we don't have a crystal ball where we can say exactly what's going to happen in three months or in six months; we don't know. 

But there are things that we know today that we need to give clarity on, and we need to ensure that as soon as we know, that we tell people.  So, this communication becomes extremely, extremely important, especially in times of crises, but also when the teams are quite remote.  What we found, especially with COVID is that very quickly, you need to define what are the decisions that the teams need to make on the ground, because they are very, very close to where things are happening; and where you need to stay very much aligned at the company level, at the group level.

As people talk, what you think is very unique in one place actually happened also in another place, so the more the crisis is global, the more it is important to be consistent and assess what decisions are made where, and be very, very clear also on that.  So, plan, but stay agile.  I think that's kind of the key learnings from what I'm seen in the past three years.

David Green: Yeah, I love how you said, to summarise, take care of people, keep communicating, empower them and plan.  I mean, that's some pretty good advice, I think.  We're told, and we've been told for quite a few years, that we live in a VUCA world, one full of volatility, uncertainty, complexity and ambiguity.  We've definitely seen that in the last couple of years.  You've talked about how this has been a big learning journey for you personally; but also, as you said, for the HR field, the whole field of HR.  There's an argument that HR has been elevated in the last couple of years as well.  Do you think that this fundamentally shifts the function of HR?

Shlomit Gruman-Navot: You know, I really like the new definition of VUCA, which is Vision, Understanding, Clarity and Agility.

David Green: I prefer that one as well.

Shlomit Gruman-Navot: Yes, exactly, because as I mentioned before, you need to embrace uncertainty.  This is part of the world that we're living in, and it's almost like, "Just get comfortable with it".  But within that, I think we need to focus on the opportunities, and there is a very big opportunity to become very, very clear and super-focused in what you are doing.

So, I think actually it pushes us, as a function, to strive for that clarity, for that simplicity, and approach things in a very, very agile way; it almost forces us to do it.  And then also, as a function, we need to get comfortable in managing paradoxes.  Often I get the question, "Is it one or the other?  Should we take care of growth, or should we look at efficiencies and effectiveness?"  It's clear also now, we see shift in the world, money is not as cheap as it was six months ago.  There is also now a certain shift towards now, look inwards, look at your efficiencies, take care of cash, strive for profitability, and so on. 

So, growth is important, but it's also important to do things smartly.  And it's not one or the other, it's one and the other.  So, I think it's about, how do we keep those two things in balance and strive for both?  I would say that the other thing, as a function, that we all rise to the occasion, is to stay super-pragmatic on things.  You can't do everything, you don't have to do everything; this all goes back to this focus and prioritisation.  And I think that this world that we're living in is giving that opportunity to simplify, to get things clear and to be super-pragmatic.

I would say that also the other thing that I've seen is that it gives us an opportunity to evolve our operating model.  So, I always say I'm not married, I'm not attached, to any operating model, I think things can also change over time; and sometimes you put the emphasis and the focus on different things, depending on the challenges that are in front of you.  Also, the business needs, it all starts with understanding your customer, and whatever our leadership behaviour, start with the customer; what are the problems we're trying to solve and what are the best ways to solve them?  And question ourselves in how much we actually scale things, especially in a global setup, and as you're building a global operation, and you need to grow very fast. 

I think the question comes, "How do you scale quickly your operation?"  So, how do you make sure that you don't invent things in 30 different ways?  Actually, the benefit of a global setup is that you can experiment.  But once it works, you take it, and you have to be very disciplined around this 80/20 rule that you basically build for 80% standardisation, because the employee experience and the problems are very similar.  I mean, there's clearly no one size fits all.  What is needed for the tech population is needed, and what is needed for the retail population, or for the commercial, that's quite clear.  So, it's not about one size fits all; but once you have a solution which is linked to a certain experience, you need to be able to scale it as quickly as possible, through obviously technology, your operating model, roles and responsibilities, and so on.  And that is something that continuously is evolving.

Again, I think if you keep the principle of being pragmatic, clear and agile, then I think it actually becomes much easier, also in the way that you can execute.

David Green: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, the 80/20, because in HR, perhaps in the past, particularly with some of the technology we've had to use, we've designed for one size fits all and that's never going to work.  But you can't go completely the other way and as you say, you've got different personas, different cultures maybe in different countries if you're a global company servicing that; but generally 80%, if you're looking at employee experience, as you said, is going to be good, and then the 20% you personalise and customise a little bit, and that's manageable, I think, isn't it?

Shlomit Gruman-Navot: Exactly.  And I always say that we're not centralising, we're globalising, and I see a big difference here.  When you centralise, then you say, "Okay, I'm going to put all my operation in a wide location".  We're actually located where our customers are, where our employees are, where our communities are, and that's a very important principle for us to keep; we are where our people are.  But the ways of working, the standards, the processes, the experiences, are as globalised as possible, but they start with what actually we need.  So, bringing the voice of the customer, or the voice of the employee, combined with what the organisation needs, together to create the best solution.

David Green: You talked earlier briefly that you'd personally experienced new challenges and changes over the last couple of years, but how do you as a Chief People Officer, how do you lead your team to know what's expected of them?

Shlomit Gruman-Navot: Yeah, that's a great question, and I have to say that I'm evolving as a leader.  So, I'm continuously learning, making mistakes as well, but I think that's part of learning, so you never fail, you just learn.  And you also need to adapt constantly and I personally also needed to adapt during the last three years, as contexts changed and obviously also the external challenges.

So, I am very much focused on being that adaptive leader that I was also talking about before, that mindset, and demonstrate this mindset, so be very flexible and change when it's needed.  And when I'm saying change, it's all in; you can't change just one element.  When change happens, you need to look at your behaviours, you need to look at the way you operate as a leader, the way you communicate, your assumptions and sometimes think differently about certain things.

I also found, throughout my career, is that no matter how much experience you have, it's never copy and paste; you can never bring exactly the same solution to an organisation, as it is a different organisation, typically different set of behaviours and culture, and context is changing.  So always, you need to adapt to the context.  And change first, before you even ask others to change, you have to demonstrate and show the change in yourself.

Obviously, I also learned to embrace the uncertainty, and in a way almost to love it in the sense that, where is the opportunity?  When things happen, even unexpected or external events, what is the opportunity there for me to grow as a leader, but also what is the opportunity for us as an organisation.  And it's okay not to have all the answers.  So, I learned to kind of let go, to some degree.  I'm not going to have all the answers always, but I've definitely been very conscious on keeping a very open and honest communication with my team.

So, listen a lot, sometimes listen much more than talk, create space for conversations, create space for people to come in, just sharing.  Adjust also the ambition, because there's a lot of things that I want to achieve as a leader, and sometimes you need to adjust also to the reality, to the capacity of the organisation, to other things which are happening in people's lives.  And be okay with it, be okay with, "Less is more", especially when the needs of the people are also changing. 

Focus and prioritise all the time, so clearly that's another thing that I keep on challenging myself, not only the team, but myself also as the leader.  Create a lot of alignment, and we just went through it all, so with the team, looking backwards from the business problems, the business priorities, what are the people or the organisational challenges, and basically we defined our priorities and the goals; so, we spent a lot of time on this alignment, especially as people are in different places, they're responsible for different things, they come with different perspectives.  This alignment piece is extremely important for me as a leader.

This whole empathy thing, you know, I really understood fully the importance of it, as a leader of my time, but overall in the organisation.  The organisation is three-dimensional: it has the IQ, it has the EQ and it has the SQ.  So, the EQ is clearly the emotional intelligence, and the SQ is the social intelligence.  It's the importance of creating connections, the importance of people feeling included, psychological safety, and that's something that I've been very, very conscious about, to create that space for people to share and to bring up issues.  So, this honesty and openness is something that is extremely important for me to create in the team.

David Green: I know that OLX Group, you have a leadership team which is based in different places anyway, and that was the case before COVID, so you're managing remotely a hybrid team a lot of the case.  But obviously, you've managed teams or led teams before where you've had most of the people together, and I was wondering if something like the need for empathy that you've spoken about, the need to listen more than talk, are these things that are even heightened when the team that you're managing is distributed?

Shlomit Gruman-Navot: Oh, absolutely.  I think it's becoming important more than ever.  And I've learned also as a leader how you adjust to this hybrid or blended ways of working.  And our teams were always everywhere, even before COVID, but clearly we could not meet as often during COVID, and we were in this forming, storming, norming kind of period as a team, I'm talking about my team, but obviously it's also the leadership team of OLX; so the importance of connection, of really being conscious that you need to connect to people on a human level and you need to find the opportunities to do that, even in a complete remote setup, and really be very intentional about it, I've found that that's extremely, extremely powerful and extremely important.

So, understand what's happening in people's lives, understand about people overall as a person, so not just as a colleague or someone that works in your team, but what are the desires of the person, what's happening in their life, what are their aspirations, so create a space for this conversation.  It's even simple things as you have one-to-one and you always remember to ask, "How was your weekend?  What have you done?" or remember something from their family situation, or from their life, that you would ask and you would follow-up on.

These are things that when you see each other in the office very day, they're more intuitive, because you're meeting in the coffee corner, or you're having side conversations; you don't have it in the virtual space, you have to create it.  So, you have to create it one-on-one, but then you also need to create it on an organisational level.  And sometimes, we add all hands, so get together globally the team, and it was all about, "Can you share, just share what is on your mind?" especially when big events, or something is happening, where you want to hear people, or you want to provide them with the space; I don't want to say the word "vent", but just to speak up or speak what is on their mind.  That's something that almost you need to be very, very intentional about, and I found it to be extremely powerful.

So, communication is becoming really important and I would say not just communication, not just having the channel, but be very intentional about it and act as a chief reminder officer.  I think we often assume we said something and people remember; well, mostly they don't, so you have to repeat and repeat and repeat.

David Green: Some great advice there, I think, for people listening who are leading teams and are maybe not so used to leading teams when they don't have their team in front of them.  One of the other things you said that really struck that leads nicely to the next question, Shlomit, and conversations we've had in the past, I've always been struck how much, as an HR leader, you focus on, "What are the business problems that we're trying to solve as an organisation, and how can we apply that from an HR perspective?" which I think again is a great lesson, I think, for people listening.

There's an argument that it's now easier for HR to have the seat at the table that we've heard about for years, in the kind of extraordinary times we've been through of late.  Are leaders and managers now within the organisation, are they quicker to involve you and the people team in some of the business challenges they're trying to solve?

Shlomit Gruman-Navot: I don't really see an issue with the seat at the table.  I guess I almost don't even like any more this definition, especially after what we've seen in the last years.  I mean, for me, this is so obvious that HR, not only is it a seat at the table, but it's in the front of a lot of the changes and the challenges.  So, it's almost like HR is leader from the front in many aspects.

That's why I'm seeing that it's so natural, immediately when something is happening, or there is a problem to solve, and it doesn't matter if it's about growth or about change or about external events, whatever, we are always there; not there as partners, but there as owners.  And one of our leadership behaviours is, "Act as an owner", and that's something that we want to see in every person in the organisation, and that's something that we also have in the conversations with our teams.

It's not about waiting to be asked.  It's about if you see a problem, raise it, bring the perspective, offer a solution, ask the question, sometimes challenge.  So, it's almost like, if you're always there, there is no question about a seat at the table; that's how I see it.  And this is why for me, this is a very natural process, where I feel my team members are owning the results together with their colleagues and with the other business leaders.  We are businesspeople who just happen to work in HR.

David Green: Exactly, yeah.  I mean, I smile at the "seat at the table" thing, because as long as, as you said, you're a business professional who just happens to work in HR, you're all in it together with other functions within the business.  And actually, pretty much every challenge that an organisation has, there's a people element to it, and sometimes the challenge is a people element.

Shlomit Gruman-Navot: Yeah, exactly.

David Green: You've talked a lot about being flexible, agile and creative, and how important that is in your role and in the role of the people function.  For listeners, what does that really mean?  Have you got an example that you can share that can show about this newish way of reacting?

Shlomit Gruman-Navot: I would only add that flexible, agile, creative and pragmatic.  I think pragmatism is extremely important, especially in times like that.  So, we are very flexible when it comes to, as I mentioned, the goal-setting.  So, we set certain priorities, but when things change then we can pivot fairly quickly.

The key principle is start with the customer.  So, understanding what are the needs, what are the needs of the organisation, in what way things in the business are changing for us to adapt, and also doing it based on data.  So, we are very passionate also about data, not only collecting data, but try to connect between different data points, and draw some relevant insights that we can also base the conversations on.  We build those experiences based on the data and based on the needs of the organisation.

I think a good example is also the hybrid, blended ways of working.  So, we also went out to the organisation, so we asked some questions on people's preferences, we wanted to understand; and that's another area where we had to combine between the intention of the organisation, as connection is very important for us, and our intention was always that people will get together; I mean, yes, not every day and you don't have to be in the office all the time, but clearly it's important for us that the teams will get together, and also depending on the roles.

Some roles can be more remote, some roles have to be more onsite, but this is where, based on data, we built the guidelines on blended working, and also the principles of it, as we want people and leaders to look at, or make decisions, based on principles rather than strict rules.  Also, in the way that we approach our employer brand, it's also an example where actually we took a very creative way of telling the stories of our people when telling the stories of OLX, because a lot of things, we can dump a lot of information about OLX on social media, but much more powerful is to use the stories of our people.  So, we went out, we'd campaign our people, sharing their life basically, so them as people, not only as professionals at OLX. 

So, things which are, especially during COVID, focusing on learning, so creating different learning experiences, creating learning libraries for different sets of employees, and adapting all the content also around all the needs during COVID, wellbeing, conversations and how to run conversations, or how to run meetings in the virtual setup, and so on.

Another good example is alignment of the leadership behaviours, and I'm referring, as you'll see a lot on our leadership behaviours, we have ten leadership behaviours at OLX Group, and that's something that we aligned on last year as a group, and we were using those leadership behaviours for all roles.  So, it's not just for leaders, it's for every person in the organisation, and we are embedding it now in the different people processes, but that's basically where we can now see, "These are the behaviours that we want to see across the company".

These are just a couple of examples of how we applied some creativity, but also being quite flexible in our approach.

David Green: You mentioned data, and I know you've been doing some really interesting data-driven work regarding employee retention and attrition.  I'd love to hear what you've been doing, what you're able to share with listeners, and what you've been able to discover.

Shlomit Gruman-Navot: So, we are indeed very passionate about data and not just for the sake of it, but really drive the right conversations.  And during COVID, we were running a wellbeing service on a regular basis, not only at OLX but also at Prosus and Group companies, engagement data.  And then we used that definitely to define the actions and to pivot where we needed to understand where the issues are, but also to start crosschecking it with other data, so for example looking at the wellbeing, looking at the engagement data, looking at attrition, looking at exit interviews, so taking that whole picture together and then have conversations around, "Where do we have problems?"

That's for example what drove us to align on some career frameworks in the organisation, as we saw that there is a question around internal career mobility, or career enhancements, so we used this opportunity to say, let's bring some clarity there.  Another example, as I mentioned, was the hybrid ways of working, that we also based the principles, the guidelines on the data that we gathered.

It's sometimes in ongoing things.  I mean, we have a monthly dashboard where we combine different data points around people, and obviously we also have live dashboards, where at any point of time, any HRVP or leader can go in and look at the data and understand what's happening right now from all dimensions in their organisation.  And we're still in the journey, we're still absolutely in the journey, we're still not where I would like us to be from a data point of view, as people data is all about the business, it's not about HR, and we need to get more sophisticated also in linking it with customer data at some point, and also use it more for the right diversity and inclusion decisions, and so on. 

So, we're still in the journey, but I definitely see a much more shift towards, "Let's have data-driven conversations, rather than an opinion".  So, rather than, "We think that that's the problem", but actually what the data tells us.  And I am very glad that we are -- I see definitely a very good shift in behaviour and also in the acceptance of the leaders to have data-driven conversations.

David Green: Yeah, and I know you're obviously at the forefront of leading that drive.  What would be interesting, I think again for listeners maybe, Shlomit, is to hear from you, as a Chief People Officer, how important is data to you in your day-to-day work?

Shlomit Gruman-Navot: It's very, very -- it's difficult for me to imagine not using data, let's put it this way.  Clearly when you make decisions, you use a lot of intuition, or you refer to your past experience or what you believe, based on what you heard, is the right decision.  At the same time, wherever you can use data, it's good to have the data.

There are always going to be decisions where you're not going to have all the facts or everything, all the data that you need in order to make the decision, but at least it gives you some orientation, or it's a base for conversation, or it's a base for asking deeper questions about what is actually the underlying problem, what actually the root cause is of what we are seeing, or what the data tells us.

I personally love data and again, not just for the sake of data, but when there is a problem, I am always interested, "Okay, what actually does the data tell me?" and try to connect as much as possible between different data points.  It's not always easy, because again, not all the data points are connected, and it's also something that we are still in the journey connecting between the data points, kind of creating this one data lake.  But what I learned is that it's very surprising how much data you already have that you're not always tapping into, not always leveraging.

So, it's extremely important for me, and it's extremely important to create an environment also in the organisation, where people are curious by looking at data.

David Green: And of course, one of the areas you've talked about where you've used data is around shaping your approach to hybrid and how that needs to be nuanced for different groups, and we're hearing a lot from many, or pretty much every HR practitioner we speak to at the moment, or interview for the podcast, that listening is more important than ever.  How do you factor that into people's experience of work in a meaningful, practical way?  I guess it's about actioning what you're hearing?

Shlomit Gruman-Navot: Yeah, so listening comes in different forms.  I mean, surveys is also one form of listening; conversations, so as I mentioned, creating the space for just having an open conversation without sometimes a topic.  There could be a topic and then a follow-up, or just kind of, "Okay, let's get together and I just want to listen to whatever is on your mind".  You can also have different learning techniques, like cohorts, when you can track this listening. 

But really, most important is not just listening, but also defining the actions.  For example, after every engagement survey, we look at it and say, "Okay, obviously we need to have some conversations around it and have it as a base for a conversation, and then define what are the three or four things that we really want to focus on, until the next survey that we want to move the needle on, or we want to improve".  It's not necessarily all the things which are red, but it's definitely the things that we believe are important, as they maybe correlate with other, again, engagement factors, or this is what is needed right now for the organisation going forward. 

So, it's very important also to take the feedback and then define the right action and the right ownership around the actions.  It's not only obviously for HR to own the action plan; it's for the leaders to own it and be very, very clear about what is expected from all levels of leaders in order to address the issue.

So listening, it's about definitely, yes, listening first and foremost with a really open mind and open heart, and then doing something about it.

David Green: Yeah, and communicating that, as you said; that's one of the points you made earlier, about the importance about that communication.

Shlomit Gruman-Navot: All the time, absolutely.

David Green: Well finally, Shlomit, this is a question we're asking everyone in this series, and you might pull back on, or summarise some of the things that you may have talked about already.  What are the two to three things that HR, as a function, will need to do to really add business value as we hopefully come out of the pandemic?  We seem to be coming out of the pandemic; hopefully come out of the pandemic!

Shlomit Gruman-Navot: Well actually, I'm going to offer four things.

David Green: Okay, that's allowed!

Shlomit Gruman-Navot: Thank you!  So, first one, I talked a lot about it, but just to summarise: focus on the business problems and work backwards from that.  So, what do we need to solve for the customers, what will be the biggest challenges in the next two or three years, and then make sure that the people function priorities and the goals are fully aligned with that.

Second, I would say clearly understand the voice of the employees, or the voice of the customer in that case, and bring that into decisions through data, insights, and make sure that you're always keeping a balance between what the organisation needs and what is the voice of the customer.  And definitely, as we talked about earlier, one size doesn't fit all, so make sure that matches the persona or the population that you build experience for.

Third, I would say evolve the mindset; I think that's most important.  So, it's the capabilities of the people, the resilience, the behaviours, the agility, the growth mindset.  I think all these things are extremely, extremely important, and I believe this is something that can be developed.  So be also very, very intentional about developing people, and give them more experiences to be able also to grow in that direction.

And, promote this EQ and SQ, because I think they're more important than ever.  So, the IQ part, clearly that's mostly where we pay attention on, it's the vision, the goals, the results, extremely important, and that needs to be balanced with the interpersonal skills, so how do we influence, how do we communicate, how do we build relationships; and the things that we are doing on an organisational level, so be very intentional about this sense of belonging, psychological safety, this listening at scale, so the environment that we are building for people.

Often, I'm asked about culture.  I always say, "Culture is a very big word; look at behaviours, because behaviours, it's what makes culture.  It's how we make decisions, how we communicate every day".  At the end, it's about the smell of the place, so how do we do things here.  And be also very much focused on that.  So, these are the four things that I would offer.

David Green: Well, some great advice there and a great way to end what I hope has been, well it has for me, been a very enjoyable conversation.  Thank you for being a guest on the Digital HR Leaders podcast, Shlomit.  Please can you let listeners know how they can stay in touch with you, follow you on social media, and maybe find out more about your work at OLX Group.

Shlomit Gruman-Navot: Yeah, well you can find me on LinkedIn very easy, and you can also go to our page on LinkedIn and find out much more about OLX and what we do.

David Green: Perfect.  Well, thank you very much, Shlomit, it's been a pleasure, and hopefully we'll see each other in person at some point as travel begins to open.

Shlomit Gruman-Navot: I hope so.  Thank you, thanks a lot for having me.