Episode 145: How To Turn People Data into Actionable Insights (Interview with Caroline O’Reilly)
In this episode of the Digital HR Leaders Podcast, David is joined by Caroline O’Reilly, GM of People Analytics at Workday. With her experience as both an engineer and a people leader, Caroline has unique insights into the challenges organisations are facing when it comes to managing people data. And as someone who speaks to Workday's customers every day, Caroline shares her thoughts on the main challenges organisations face in today’s volatile digital world.
This conversation will cover:
The issue of fragmented data and how to solve it
How to plan, execute and analyse data
How to get started with understanding your data,
How to create a more data-driven culture
Moving the dial of diversity, equity and inclusion
The importance of from getting employee listening data to making decisions fast
The discussion also touches on employee listening, skills-based organisations, and the role of people analytics in creating more certainty for businesses in uncertain times.
Support from this podcast comes from Workday, a trusted partner to businesses around the world. You can learn more by visiting: workday.com
David Green: Today, I'm delighted to introduce our guest, Caroline O'Reilly, GM of People Analytics at Workday. Caroline speaks to Workday's customers every day about their people data challenges, and allied to her impressive experience as an engineer and a people leader, Caroline has a unique insight into the main challenges organisations are facing at the moment.
In our discussion, Caroline and I will explore how HR leaders and professionals can overcome some of the key challenges in developing a successful people analytics function. Caroline will share her expertise on topics such as managing fragmented data; creating a data-driven culture; moving the dial on diversity, equity and inclusion; employee listening; building a skills-based organisation; and we also talk about the future of HR technology.
Caroline also shares examples of how Workday has helped the likes of Rolls Royce, Telstra and Intermountain Healthcare plan, execute and analyse their data to make big, strategic decisions. So, whether you are just starting to understand your data, take your people analytics function to the next level, or want to create a more data-driven culture, this episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to enhance their people analytics journey. Let's dive into the conversation where Caroline starts by telling us a little bit more about her role at Workday.
Caroline O'Reilly: I'm GM of Analytics Workday, so what that entails is, we're a large, global team and we build the analytics suite for Workday. So, we build the platform and products that enable our customers to get real-time, actionable insights that really accelerate their decision-making. So, we built two products and I'll explain what they are.
The first one is People Analytics. So, you can think about that as your people analyst in a box. So, imagine your CHRO comes to you at the end of the month and says, "Show me my latest people trends and anomalies", just export it from People Analytics, right. So, it's a pre-built application that uses AI and ML to uncover your key trends about your people. So, it reports on a number of different trends across key priorities like diversity and inclusion, org composition, retention and attrition hiring, and talent and performance, and we also bring in skills data there.
When we're building people analytics, we're always really thinking about the democratisation of data and making data easily available to everyone and easily understandable by everybody as well. So, we are not just surfacing KPIs, we're also using our own storyteller engine to surface stories about the data so they're easy to understand and interpret.
The other part that we have is Prism Analytics. So, you can think of Prism as an HR and financial data hub. So, we have customers pulling in data from benefits, time-tracking systems, recruiting systems, other operational data, learning data; and they may also want to be sunsetting systems and they want to pull that data in somewhere else. And they need all this data in context to make decisions.
So, what Prism allows you to do is to bring in all that external data and to blend it with your Workday data and to keep that secure in the Workday security model so that while our customers are in Workday, they have access to this rich, third-party data as well, all in this secure environment to help them make decisions.
The other piece that we're responsible for is that we build all of the out-of-the-box reporting for Workday. So, that's your analysis toolkit for enabling you to do ad-hoc analysis for discovery boards, to build dashboards, and to do drag-and-drop reporting as well at Workday.
David Green: I'm interested, I ask a lot of the people that are guests on the show, what inspired you to get into the world of people analytics?
Caroline O'Reilly: Sure, well I've been a software engineer for almost 30 years now, and 20 of those almost as a people leader. So, both as my time as an engineer and a manager, I always have been very data-driven to help me make decisions, so I heavily rely on our own software to make people decisions. So, when I joined Workday ten years ago, I noticed something really different about the company. I noticed that we spent a lot of time training our managers, and not just one-off, but continuously. Every year, we have so much training to keep improving our manager capability, and it's not for the manager's sake, it's to enable every employee to have a really great experience at work and to also have an amazing career. That's our jobs as managers, to enable everyone else to grow.
To do that, we really need as managers to have excellent data about our people, and that data comes from during the hiring process, during our onboarding. We want to know what's the diversity of the talent we're hiring, where we're hiring it from; are we being diverse when we're considering promotions; and we need data around career mobility and skills development. So, during all of these stages, we need access as people managers to real-time and trusted data to make those best decisions for our people.
I've always been an early adopter of our own internal people technology as well, so we're really lucky to have an amazing leader in our People Analytics team in Phil Willburn, and you had him on the podcast a few weeks ago, and Phil's a good friend of mine and he teases me still that when we went live with Peakon, which is our employee listening tool, that I had the highest comment interaction score for the team, because I was so interested in hearing from my team and hearing from them, in their real words, what their experiences were. So, I'm always quick to give Phil feedback and spoiler alerts. I really love Peakon and I couldn't run a distributed team without it. And Phil is also my customer, so he also uses reporting and Prism and People Analytics, so he's just as quick to give me feedback as well.
In short, I really love they do products that help us all become better managers, because in the end that creates better experiences for everybody.
David Green: What are some of the main challenges you see organisations facing at the moment?
Caroline O'Reilly: We're really hearing from customers. The first challenge we hear is around shortening decision cycles. So, our customers are continuously planning and forecasting, and we saw that really accelerate of course during COVID, where there were really tight planning and forecasting loops. And then they're executing those plans and then analysing those results and then starting that cycle again, and those cycles are just getting shorter and shorter; that's what we hear from customers. They want to get really tight on those cycles so they can pivot even faster when they need to. So, we saw that acceleration during COVID, but we've definitely seen that that trend has definitely persisted, so that plan, execute, analyse cycle.
Another challenge we hear is that there's just a proliferation of data, there's so much data collection in organisations and it's fragmented and it's in all different parts of the organisation with all different owners. That means that it's really hard for people to separate that signal from the noise. And business leaders are finding it slow as well to get their hands on the data that they need to make decisions, especially when it's owned by different parts of the organisation. They want to have ownership for their own data and be able to interpret that in real time when they need it. So, in Workday, we interweave our analytics through the business processes so that our customers have access to the analytics when they're making a decision of when they can take action, so that they can own the data and have it there at their fingertips when they need to take action.
Then, with this proliferation of data, we also hear that analyst teams are spending so much time analysing the data as well, and a lot of that heavy lifting can be automated. So, we hear our customers talk about how it takes analysts weeks to analyse data and extract trends from it, and all of this is distracting them from really focusing on strategic work. When you deploy People Analytics, what we called, "our analyst in a box", you can get that deployed in a matter of weeks and it runs on top of Workday, and it would surface those people data trends for you and your business. We've heard some customers to say that to do that themselves, it has taken them 30 days to surface that same trended data from their people data.
What we also find by, you know, I think we get into a pattern of reporting on the same people data over and over again, we get used to certain KPIs and certain trends that we're reporting on, so you want to sort of break out of that mould. What we like about People Analytics is that it's looking for the anomalies that you might not have been looking for, so it's surfacing stories that you might not have even thought about looking for. So, one of our large retail customers has saved over 100 hours a month that their analysts were using to respond to ad hoc requests from the teams, by rolling out People Analytics.
Another benefit of that is, I don't know, David, if this annoys you, but when I go into meetings and people are talking about different data from different places and it doesn't all match up, when you're actually all using the same app together, you have consistency in the data that you're all talking about and you will all have the same baseline data to make those decisions and be able to discuss together. So, that was another benefit of your teams using the same application to interrogate the data and to ask questions of it.
David Green: So, Caroline, we're going to stay with customers at least for the next two questions, and we're going to look at customers maybe at different states of the journey or maturity with people analytics. So, if we start with a customer that's just getting started, what sort of advice and guidance would you offer in terms of how to understand their people data, where to get started?
Caroline O'Reilly: I think sometimes there's a tendency to jump in and think about what the technology answer is to that, and you also always need to start with what the business challenge is that you're trying to solve and what are the outcomes that you want with a people analytics solution; and every people data strategy has to be aligned to the business strategy as well. So, if you don't have a People Analytics team at the moment, one thing you could do is deploy an application like People Analytics on top of your HR data and that will really start you off fast, it will be your analyst in a box.
So, the first phase that we call, in getting started with your People Analytics journey, is really the baseline phase, and that's about the organisations who are really just getting started, and they're trying to understand the data that they have already in their organisation. So, those organisations will start and pick maybe one or two different topic areas that they want to dig deep into. So, let's say they take diversity and inclusion they want to understand more about, or retention and attrition; and then they'll select a group of super-users and people who are really passionate about that, and start holding weekly discovery sessions, looking at the data, trying to discover the trends in that data and patterns. Then they'll start sharing that internally in their business as well with the CHRO or internally.
Then they can start to decide how they're going to take action on those trends that they're seeing, and execute it. Then within six months, you have a group of people who are really passionate about it, who really understand the data, who are getting really comfortable with one or two topic areas, and that they can think about what are the business outcomes that they want to get from that data.
Then they move into the second phase, which we call the buzz-string phase, which is really opening up to the broader organisation. So, now you have a core set of data champions and then you start this internal awareness campaign in your organisation, holding office hours with these data champions and scaling to the rest of the HR team. This is where you want to get your HR team super-savvy with the data and in a self-service way, and this is where it's really important to accomplish that data literacy and to be able to have teams being able to self-service for the questions that they want to answer about their data, so whether that's about retention or skills gaps, etc, you want to enable them to be able to chart that data for themselves.
Then, we have customers breaking into the breakthrough phase, and that's where they're going to scale it to new use cases and topic areas, and that's where they will probably be very, very savvy with all of the different topic areas in People Analytics, and then some of our customers are sending out emails and newsletters explaining where the data trends are, where the anomalies are over time, and we're getting people very into a self-service way of being able to understand their own data.
A really good example of that is Intermountain Healthcare, and they won the Workday Innovation Award last year. They have really pushed the boundaries on analytics. So, they have 33 hospitals and 385 clinics, so you can imagine the sort of data that they need to report on, and they had really great success with deploying People Analytics. They wanted their HR VPs to really enable more of the self-service, and they wanted to free up time as well from the analysts, because the HR VPs were asking the analysts naturally to get information on attrition, hiring, org composition, etc. So, by giving them access to their own reporting and analytics, they could actually start digging into the data themselves, and they could answer a lot of the questions themselves, which in turn freed up the other data teams.
They wanted to ask a question, for instance, they started to see in their data, "Why do some leaders have lower engagement scores?" and they found out by going through their own discovery boards and using People Analytics that they could see that these were newer leaders and they needed more training, and then they were able to action that. They also brought in data on the historical workforce, they were tracking turnover, they were looking at rehiring eligibility as well and safety incidents as well in their data. They also deployed a Healthcare Analytics Accelerator as well, which enabled them to track their labour costs analytics, so they could see their costs by location, by day and trend that over time. So, they're a really good example of a customer who's really excelling with their analytics.
David Green: We're recording this on International Women's Day, so I'm particularly pleased that the next question is going to lead into the DE&I area. So, as I said, the last three years, we've undertaken annual research at Insight222 on where People Analytics is adding the most business value and actually asking questions. So last year, 184 companies participated in this particular study and the question we ask is, "Where are the three areas in your business where people analytics is adding the most value?" In the last two years, Diversity, Equity and Inclusion has come out on top. I know at Workday, and again I got this from speaking to Phil in the episode a couple of weeks ago, it's core to everything you do, putting DE&I into everything, and he talked about the VIBE Index, I think, that was developed internally and now you've rolled out to some of your customers as well.
In your experience, what are the core data points that HR professionals should be looking at to take their Diversity, Equity and Inclusion initiatives to the Workday level, we could call it, certainly to a higher level?
Caroline O'Reilly: That was well planned, David, to talk today on International Women's Day! You're right about Workday. So, we've been really committed to DE&I from the very inception of Workday, it really has been in our DNA from day one. And so, it's no surprise when I hear you talking about DE&I as one of the top areas. We see it actually as the most viewed section on our People Analytics application, so DE&I is the most viewed section on our People Analytics application, hundreds of customers are really going into that all the time.
A good starting point is, we also did a survey as well, called the Workday Global Blueprint for Belonging and Diversity, which was a study commissioned by HR and business leaders. So, it was a group of 3,000-plus HR professionals in 23 countries, and we were really trying to understand what were the challenges of those business leaders and what was the current state of DE&I across industries globally, because we all know as leaders we have blind spots and we need to use People Analytics to really constantly check we're making decisions that are going to represent our diverse populations, whether we're tracking new talent, or whether we're promoting or offering mentorship opportunities.
From that survey, we learnt that organisations really need leadership and employee buy-in to really make progress on DE&I initiatives. And what we found was actually really encouraging, that even in these uncertain times, there's a real increase in dedicated DE&I roles compared to a year ago, which is really great news to hear. We also see a number of organisations, which is terrific as well, starting to share compensation and peer-related data with their employees in a transparent way, and this is critical to really make workplaces more equitable for all and to really start closing that gender pay gap across industries.
You mentioned VIBE, and that's completely right. I think as I said, Workday has had DE&I in its DNA from inception and so much so that we've built it in to our products. VIBE is a diversity product which VIBE stands for Value, Inclusion, Belonging and Equity, and we use it to surface metrics to show areas of opportunity to improve equity and parity across different intersections of groups. So, we have pulled that into People Analytics as well, so when you view that in the application, you can benchmark your diversity, equity and belonging along the employee life cycle. So, when you're resourcing talent, when you're retaining talent, developing them, promoting them, you can see that heat map in People Analytics to be able to tell you how you're doing on that. So, you can compare your performance across multiple dimensions, and it highlights areas of improvement for you.
So, we really feel very strongly about making everywhere a better place to work and a more diverse place to work, so that's true.
David Green: So, if we turn to employee listening, another good reason to invest in people analytics, it's been such an important instrument for companies, particularly since 2020 throughout the various stages of the pandemic, and now as we move into the hybrid era when we start to understand, when does in-person matter, what's the right mix of being in office versus being remote, and we actually start to think about it beyond where people work and how people work and everything else as well. When it works well, employee listening provides insights that support business decisions and is an invaluable tool for managers, as we've discussed already.
How can HR leaders and people analytics ensure that decision-makers get this important data as quickly as possible and in time to actually take action?
Caroline O'Reilly: I completely agree with you, David, when you say employee listening tools are invaluable; I just could not work without them in my organisation. I remember the day back in 2020 when we decided to shut down the Dublin office and we were all going to work from home, and I remember turning to my colleague, who had just started that week, beside me packing up his bag and saying to him, "Are you going to be okay, you've just started this week?", because I was really thinking, he didn't have those social connections that many of us had already as we were leaving the office, it was a much different experience for him having just started that week, and then going into work from home. So, I really relied heavily during that time, and I do every week, on Peakon and the employee voice listening to really keep connected to my team.
I can see in real time what my team are thinking about. It enables me to have anonymous conversations with my team. So, somebody can mention something and start a conversation with me, and often that leads to a one-to-one, often that person does want to meet in person, or I make a new connection and somebody wants to meet, now in person thankfully. So, it's one thing getting all the comments from an employee listening tool, but it's very difficult to go and then spend time and find out, what are the trends in all that listening data.
When you've a large organisation, it's very difficult to do that. So the real benefit for me in Peakon is that I can get a heat map of my whole organisation across region, by managers, by management area, and it's telling me where I need to focus my attention; where things are okay, and then where I need to focus my attention. So for instance, areas it might tell me to focus on are career growth or salary conversations, or do people feel they have autonomy in certain organisations; are they comfortable with their environment now they're coming back to work; of course lots of comments about our environment; do they feel they have good management support? I'm really proud that this one's actually very strong in my organisation, so great job to the managers in the team; how are their peer relationships with their teams; do they feel they have freedom of opinions? So, it's all these different questions that we're asking and getting information on.
So, I could not run the organisation, to be honest, without hearing all of this commentary every week from the team in a really natural way that I can interact with.
David Green: Yeah, and we talked about Diversity, Equity and Inclusion and now employee listening; these are two areas where people data and people analytics is having a big impact. Another area, as I'm sure you've heard from Workday's customers, and if you listen to the podcast, quite a few episodes on here as well, there's this real increasing focus in HR in building a skills-based organisation. Certainly, I heard a lot about that when I was at Workday Rising in Stockholm in November as well.
From the customers that you speak to, what are some of the business challenges that they are trying to solve through focusing on skills?
Caroline O'Reilly: Yeah, you're totally right, David, everyone's talking about skills at the moment and migrating to a skills-based organisation. Number one, there's a shortage of talent, we all know that. McKinsey said last year that 87% of executives are experiencing skills gaps in the workforce. This is a super-tight labour market and organisations are really trying to turn around fast ways of how to fill those skills gaps, so they need to think about it in new and novel ways.
Traditionally, we've always looked at hiring candidates based on degrees or job roles. Well, that's actually very restrictive. By moving to a skills-based organisation and thinking about skills when you're hiring, it's actually a great way to open up your talent pool. So, companies now want to infer skills that a candidate has and match that to the skills that they need, and this is really good news I think for DE&I as well, because it's really good news for candidates who don't come from a traditional background going for a job role. If we can focus on skills-based hiring, it could help from bias as well in hiring.
The second thing I hear about skills is organisations really are struggling to know what skills they have in the organisation already. The WE Forum said last year as well that 50% of the global workforce will require reskilling by 2025, so there's going to be a real focus on reskilling the workforce, and first understanding what skills they have in the workforce. So, with such a tight labour market, you're not going to be able to hire all the people you need to fill those skills gaps, you're going to have to think about upskilling your workforce.
So, we help companies really think about, what are the strategic skills they need, and then how to identify the population in their own organisation that they can upskill. And then, we can also enrol them into learning opportunities and give them those learning and growth opportunities to upskill in the workforce. This is really great as well for career mobility. That's something that we're very passionate about in Workday as well, is to enable people to move between teams, because that really does help give a different point of view as people are moved around the organisation.
Then, that's sort of a very company-centric view of it; but if you look at it from the employee side as well, employees are keen to grow their skills. Employees all over the world are very ambitious, they're looking to grow their skills, they're looking to grow their career. When I'm listening to my Peakon comments, everyone is looking in a way to grow and learn and get new skills. So, it can compare my career path with somebody else in the organisation and we can say, "These are some learning opportunities that you might want to do to get to a different level or to take on a different role".
We have started enabling what we call "gigs" in the organisation, where these are very, very short-term roles where somebody might do what we call a gig for maybe three months as a way of learning a new skill. This is a more fine-grained approach of matching people to work that needs to be done. And I really like this as well, because it takes the bias out of hiring someone as well. Because, you know, sometimes in an organisation, you need to know somebody in the company to be able to get the opportunity to work in a different team. But by advertising a gig and be very clear about what skills are needed and what you're going to learn in that gig, you really are moving more to skills-based hiring for internal mobility as well, which is a really great opportunity for people.
A company that's doing really great on skills side is Telstra, and they're an Australian telecoms company. So, they're using Planning and Prism to bring together HR and operational data to create holistic workforce plans. So, they analyse all the critical skills they need and they're always identifying the gaps in their skills. They have over 20,000 skills in Prism and Planning, and every quarter they're using this skills data to assign new priorities and task to the workforce, and this has the added benefit of employees also understanding what work is coming and that they can pitch to work on those projects as well, so it helps them to develop their skills. So, it's a win/win for the company and employee moving to this skills-based work.
David Green: As Workday, how are you helping customers get started on the skills journey?
Caroline O'Reilly: We understand that moving to a skills-based organisation may seem like a heavy lift, but there's ways that you can start small. For instance, a good way I talked about there was using it in their recruiting process, being able to infer skills as people apply and assigning them to candidates. A good follow-on step as well is trying to move to start some gigs and have some internal mobility for projects.
We've also integrated skills into People Analytics, because it helps for you to be able to see what your current skills are, to be able to see how your journey of moving skills is progressing as well over time. So, you can see a heat map of your skills over time and you can visualise your org and your skills, so that's also a good way to actually visualise where you are to make progress.
David Green: So, we've kind of talked a bit about some of maybe the economic challenges that we've got in the current climate at the moment and it's clear that some parts of the globe and certain industry sectors are facing economic headwinds at the moment. How can people analytics help create more certainty for business?
Caroline O'Reilly: I think we can all be certain that there's just going to continue to be uncertainty and I think the most important thing is that you have tools that are going to be agile and they're going to enable you to be agile and they're going to enable you to pivot as a business. You don't want to have a toolset that's going to be overly restrictive, so that's the first thing. And then the second thing is that leaders don't have time right now, they're not having as much time to look deep into the trends. So, wherever they can use ML and AI in automation to surface those trends is going to give them a strategic advantage. If they can focus more on the strategy and direction, then we can move from that heavy lifting to using automated insights.
David Green: I'm glad we've got onto the technology, because having a guest from Workday on the show is fantastic because there's so much happening in the technology space, but also in the HR technology space as well at the moment. So, let's look into the future, let's say that you gaze into your crystal ball, Caroline, and I won't hold you to this, I promise, where do you see HR platforms like Workday heading in the next three to five years?
Caroline O'Reilly: Well, David, we couldn't be on a podcast -- there's no podcast today that isn't talking about generative AI, so that would be the first trend. We all see it, it's here, it's not coming, it's here, and there's so many different use cases that could be applied to HR. I did, as any normal person would do today, I asked ChatGPT where it could be applied in HR, so it gave me some great examples, like recruiting, so generating candidate profiles for job requirements, I thought that was a great idea; then, being used for training, being able to create training materials, potentially creating personalised engagement programmes for employees around recognition as well; providing feedback; developing career plans.
But also, when we think about the power of AI, so much of HR as well, we create docs, we summarise docs, we're doing continuous performance, so there's going to be lots of different ways that generative AI can be applied to HR and to really make us much more efficient in the HR field, I think. And another thing I think we're going to see with that is we're all used to the chatbots that we interact with at the moment, but that's going to just take it to a whole new level. I'm really excited as to how that's going to improve chatbots as well that we interact with.
So, the second shift is even more towards storytelling and the democratisation of data. That's something that we're all very passionate about, is that data should be accessible to all. We've invested a lot of time with that in my own team, designing partner groups for customers, and we're trying to keep improving our user experience and keep listening to customers about how they're interpreting the natural language stories that we're surfacing to them and the graphs, to be able to make it as successful as it can be. So, we're going to see much more personalisation and prescriptive analytics as well coming.
You touched on this, David, as well as you were talking there, I see much closer collaboration just happening over the last few years as well between the CFO and the CHRO when it comes to people analytics. Companies that we talk to really want to know in real time the impact of the HR KPIs, like what's a real financial benefit of moving the needle on some of these metrics? One I like to think about is, what's the real cost of attrition? It's not just somebody leaving and their salary, it's what's the cost to attract somebody back to the team; what is the cost to onboard them; what's the impact on the team when someone leaves, and you can hear that as well at your employee listening; what is the cost to train somebody else when you bring another person onto the team; and how are the team feeling and are they stressed out now if somebody has left that team; all those things around attrition that you can start to measure and get a feeling about.
So, the office of CFO and CHRO are also looking at what are the key skills we need to hire and where should we hire them and where's the best location, the fastest location to hire, and how are we utilising our officers, etc? So, CFO and CHRO are getting much more close together in terms of looking at people analytics data.
David Green: What do you think HR leaders need to be thinking about most in the next 12 to 24 months, and what is your biggest concern and what do you see is the biggest opportunity?
Caroline O'Reilly: I think the big opportunity is around hiring and skills-based workforce. We've been hearing last year the team, "quiet quitting", and this has really moved to what has been called "quiet hiring", which is hiring without actually hiring full-time employees, so really looking at your own organisation in terms of internal mobility, more skills-based hiring, moving to gig-based hiring and broadening the mindset when you're looking for talent, changing the way we hire and doing a lot of internal mobility.
We're also going to be utilising contingent workforces, which are really going to enable us to flex the capacity that we need when we need it. So essentially, we'll see a real change in talent mobility and moving to skills-based hiring, a lot of internal mobility and changing the way we hire; and a real move to upskilling as well, being really innovative around where we're going to get those skills. We aren't always going to get them externally, we're going to have to upskill our workforce as well. And we're going to be using ML and AI to do it.
David Green: Brilliant. Well, I think those are definitely two areas we're going to be looking at moving forward. Caroline, thank you so much for being a guest on the Digital HR Leaders podcast, I really enjoyed our conversation, and it's exciting what you and the team are doing at Workday and the products that you're bringing out and bringing together I think as well for companies. Can you let listeners know how they can find you on social media and learn more about the products and initiatives that you are leading at Workday?
Caroline O'Reilly: Sure, you can find me on LinkedIn; I'm Caroline O'Reilly at Workday, you'll find me there.
David Green: Perfect. Well, you know where to go now, listeners. Caroline, thank you very much, it's been a pleasure and hopefully we'll see each other at some point again in person in the coming months.
Caroline O'Reilly: Thank you very much, David.